Activity Check Results / HMD

[lucetimods]

The results for the Activity Check are in. Please note that the following characters were either inactive, didn't post to the activity check, or failed to speak to a moderator about their activity. Also added were characters who have dropped recently, for your convenience.

Copy-paste the following here:

manage_circle del_read absolutewill manage_circle del_read brokenpromise manage_circle del_read chibifalenas manage_circle del_read devilsuppressor manage_circle del_read eyesofremorse manage_circle del_read faithfulstudent manage_circle del_read fowlplots manage_circle del_read gungho manage_circle del_read hark_a_suicune manage_circle del_read silpheed manage_circle del_read smackmywitchup manage_circle del_read tenerezza manage_circle del_read tibias manage_circle del_read trashed manage_circle del_read silpheed manage_circle del_read holyknights manage_circle del_read airbound manage_circle del_read sharpness manage_circle del_read penstabby manage_circle del_read chainedraven manage_circle del_read bereavement manage_circle del_read nikori manage_circle del_read divinacommedia manage_circle del_read mythmaker manage_circle del_read burningdownfate manage_circle del_read powdersup manage_circle del_read happierdays manage_circle del_read selfinteresting manage_circle del_read dogboy manage_circle del_read thelittlemacthatcould manage_circle del_read cladinthedark manage_circle del_read skyborne_mage manage_circle del_read former_third manage_circle del_read kindhearted manage_circle del_read abetteryoda manage_circle del_read handmotions manage_circle del_read returnthyname manage_circle del_read fearless_leader manage_circle del_read reversible manage_circle del_read illusionarymoon manage_circle del_read consultsdetective

A number of you passed the activity check, but barely. (You know who you are.) Try to pick things up, as it's no fun to character-squat.

If there are any mistakes here, please let us know! Additionally, if your character was removed and you're still active, feel free to appeal to one of us about keeping your character. However, please remember next time to stay active and post to the Activity Check. Thank you!

And as always:

HMD

How's My Driving?

This is a crit post for both the community and game and for your characters. If you have something you'd like to see us improve upon with the game, PLEASE TELL US HERE! Anon commenting is on, but if anything gets really nasty there will be warnings and thread-freezing. This isn't required but everyone is encouraged to take advantage of the advice of your fellow players!

Just some pointers: no taking cheap shots, no dragging personal issues into things and for the love of all that is wise and great, please double check your replies and comments before posting them. Sometimes a change in phrasing can make all the difference between a helpful tone and a condescending one.

ALSO ALSO: We'd like to clarify that HMD means HMD- which means it's okay to have both good and bad crit. Some people have expressed concerns about posting good/bad crit when a character already has bad/good crit posted. We'd like to encourage you guys to do it anyway! You can drive well or badly, and even good drivers make mistakes. So give it a try \o

Comments

Re: Yon Fellow's Fellows

[(Anonymous)]

I second the above anon's concerns. Initially seeing the results of the rng I was excited, but I found his actions therein unreasonable. Your qualifications for signing up Obi-Wan for this was that he's a proven negotiator, and here he didn't even make an attempt.

If anything, I think a lot of us would like to hear your reasoning for his actions. That kind of trickery was expected of Loki, villain and god of mischief. Not a jedi knight.

[(Anonymous)]

And when Korras made his identity apparent, let me repeat that no one even asked him to come back with them and help with the cure. This is a fellow human being, a fellow captive, and one with whom they stood a reasonable chance of convincing to help them. Isn't this exactly where years of Jedi training to detach oneself from his emotions would come into play?

The much larger picture here is one which Obi-Wan should have been aware of - uniting the enclaves to stand against the Malnosso. Instead, he isolated Luceti further.

While I understand that he was not in the best state of mind, the conversation could not have taken more than three real time minutes. Again, the request to help had not even been made before Obi-Wan chose to risk Korras' life and aid (what if they'd needed more than the man's body?) in order to shoot and abduct a man who was talking with them peaceably.

Again, I have to urge you to reconsider your characterization in this matter. The stakes are very high here. If you are determined that this is the most IC response he would have taken, of course that is your preference, but it is by all objective measurement an evil response. It was completely dictated by fear and impatience. And I hope to see the implications of him giving into such dark emotions in the future. After all, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate.

[averybadfeeling]

Mostly, this consideration is giving me more reasons he would have done what he did. He was pitting the diplomatic cooperation of a man who threw acid at him against the lives of his best friend and hundreds of others, and I continue to see no way in which what Korras did was diplomacy.

He wasn't talking with them peacably. Thirty seconds in, he'd dismissed Obi-Wan as a liar despite the fact that he wasn't lying and thrown acid at him. He went in trying to be friendly, and was rejected. Loki did ask him for help, and was again soundly dismissed and rejected. He had closed himself off to any sort of reasonable conversation within the space of those precious few three minutes.

I will say it again. He did not present as a man engaging in conversation. He presented as a man trying to find a way out.

da

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sorry, but I feel the need to chime in here to say that if that justifies it more to you, your reasoning is flawed.

Hundreds of lives may have been at stake, but you cannot tell me that Obi-Wan has never been in a situation such as this before. Indeed, he's been involved in crises where entire countries and planets - millions to billions of lives, including some close to him - have been at stake, and acted cooler under pressure.

Furthermore, you are making gross assumptions about Korras. Any remotely paranoid character would be checking for escape routes, not knowing the intentions of knowing two strange men. And while Korras said he couldn't help, Obi-Wan didn't even ask why. Was it considered that maybe Korras himself didn't know how to be of help? Maybe if he had been asked for a blood sample, he would've parted with it just to have the two men out of his way. No other options were explored.

Instead he reacted out of fear and impatience, two things the other anon illustrated more perfectly is opposite of how he should've acted just by years of teaching.

If this is still the route you want to take, no one has any say in it but you. I'm sorry if I come out as sounding angry - I did not write this angry - but it is grossly ooc. If stress was his reasons for reacting like this, all I can hope to see acknowledged by him IC that this was handled very poorly.

[(Anonymous)]

Obviously, we have very different interpretations of that thread. When I read the thread, in order, I see Obi-Wan claiming he did 'this sort of thing' professionally, obliquely referring to negotiation, before you claim he had any knowledge of who Korras was. After learning who Korras was, I see Obi-Wan agreeing with Korras' assessment about his initial approach:

[... Okay, he had underestimated this one.

Clearly a mistake.]

Although on further rereading, I can see how what Obi-Wan said would be a sort of blanket statement meant to be built upon in the event Korras was the man he was looking for, I don't see why Obi-Wan would be surprised that an obviously reclusive survivor would be distrustful of his motivations.

When I read this thread, I see Korras throwing acid not at either Obi-Wan or Loki, but at the ground. A warning from a stranger to two strangers that he did not believe them in a time of war, and not to approach further because he was not helpless. I never claimed that Korras was speaking diplomatically. I claimed he was talking with them peaceably, that he did not initiate an attack. Dialogue was still open.

And again, in my reading of the thread, Loki did not ask Korras to come back with them. He said:

We've a bit of a puzzle that needs solving.

and

Obviously you know about the nasty business going on. We've developed something of a cure, partially finished, but some factor seems missing. 'tis quite frustrating. I can do out the formulae for you, if you like.

Korras pointed to the man - the scientist - at his feet and said that his scientist was dead and he could not help them. Referring specifically, in my reading to the thread, to the scientific advice it seemed Loki was speaking about.

In no place was Korras asked to come back and submit his body for testing.

Obi-Wan shot him first.

If you are convinced that this is the right course of action for your character, then I can only thank you for giving my critique consideration. But by my reading of the thread, even taking your explanations into account, I still disagree, and as I said, hope that you take his actions into consideration in his future.

Re: da

[averybadfeeling]

He has. I seem to recall him cutting through an entire legion of Clone Troopers to disable a trap set for the Jedi Order.

Obi-Wan doesn't care if he has a reason to be paranoid. At this moment in time, the cure was more important than Korras's goodwill, especially since Korras had been so blatantly hostile and unwilling to continue. It doesn't take that many attempts to negotiate with a brick wall to realize the brick wall isn't going to reciprocate. He didn't react out of fear and impatience, he reacted out of the need to save lives regardless of upsetting one man who, frankly, had done nothing to earn his consideration and yet had been given it in the beginning anyway.

It's a difficult decision. He was crippled, and low on options. If Korras fought, Obi-Wan was in a tactically vulnerable position to defend himself. If Korras fled, as it seemed he was likely to do, Obi-Wan would be unable to prevent him from doing so or find him again. So when the discussions were fruitless- and they rather obviously were, because you can come up with new questions to ask all day and still not get an answer from somebody obviously uninterested in answering you- he moved on to his secondary option.

So no, I don't know that I'm even willing to acknowledge OOC that this was handled poorly, except by those who deliberately assumed Obi-Wan was lying from the outset and had no interest in cooperation.

[averybadfeeling]

The thing he did professionally was aid and rescue people. He said as much.

You're the one who decided he was lying to Korras, not me. Obi-Wan approached him honestly and was treated as a liar, and once somebody has decided that you're a liar, they will never believe you.

And there was far too much at stake here for him to consider Korras's well-being above that of the entire enclosure.

So, while your input is appreciated, I'm afraid it's time to agree to disagree.

[averybadfeeling]

He did make an attempt, and the continued insistence that everything he initially said to Korras was a lie continues to confuse me. From the tone of this critique, however, somehow I don't see you being terribly interested in discussing this.

However, if you are interested, I have outlined them rather comprehensively above.

[dammitmasa]

Let me preface this with the reason I'm telling you this. It's because when we did our thread, I recognized Obi Wan was being a little strange, but obliged you with the natural reactions Korras would have, up to letting Obi Wan get an easy win. I didn't know what his mindset was. After seeing the crit above and your responses, I feel like I have an idea where you're coming from. And to an extent, I do agree with you. What you had Obi Wan do wasn't outside his character to do, in the right stressful situation where hundreds or thousands of lives are on the line.

So my problem with Obi-Wan is that you haven't made him ooc. Instead, you've just made him reckless and to be blunt, stupid. This might have fit if this was Anakin Skywalker you were playing. But even Han Solo wouldn't shoot that early. Just look at the situation you were in:

Obi Wan finds this lone man who just killed this other dude who was quite a bit scarier and bigger than him. This alone should have made Obi Wan realize he was not dealing with some ordinary man who needed help. From the very beginning, Obi Wan looks like he's wearing a false smile as he tries to con Korras into coming down safely. This is why Korras suspects him. It's so obvious that Korras is not just a random refugee in need of helping and it does not begin to occur to him that Obi Wan does not realize this. If Obi Wan wasn't lying, then it just makes him look unobservant, overly trusting, and naive. There were people out looking for the 'Lone Survivor'. Obi Wan was one of them. He should have suspected from the start that this man they ran into could be who they were looking for and approached the situation like that.

Next, he and Loki somehow never go so far as to even ask for Korras's help. There's some vague suggestions they're working on a way to help people. Korras is uninterested, largely because Loki is talking about complicated formulas which mean nothing to a gritty street-smart soldier. He makes no move to leave. His earlier attack was because these two pair of smug, smiling men kept advancing on him inch by inch. But either way, the forum is still open for them to say something, anything. Korras hadn't even turned to leave yet (which would have been a far more opportune time to shoot him incidentally.)

But then Obi Wan does something more shocking. In the dead of night, at a figure who he can barely see, he shoots him down. Imagine what would happened if he missed. You may defend this as an action that saved lives through the least riskiest way possible, but only if you presume you have the power to godmode. Obi Wan was granted a boon in having Korras taken down so easily. In most threads, the other player would never allow a surprise hit like that to take down their character. You left me in a difficult situation. If I had Korras fight back, then not only would I be exposed Obi Wan as being reckless (which I don't like to do unless I know it's intentional) but I would also be making a lot of presumptions myself. For instance, if Obi Wan could see enough in the dark to shoot at Korras, then shouldn't he be able to see enough to immediately duck? If I had Korras counter attack, then there's a good chance he would have escaped and I would need to go re-roll for someone to try to talk to him/capture him. Only now it would be that much harder to get him to cooperate much less even find him. What was most offputting was the suddenness of the attack, since there was no hint of Obi Wan preparing to attack or even thinking about it. In a straight thread between players, I would have never allowed that to hit my own character. Both Obi Wan and you as a player lucked out tremendously to have been able to score those hits.

Even assuming Obi Wan is a hundred percent accurate no matter what and that Korras dodging would be too far fetched, he had no idea if Korras truly was alone. Already he had proof that until recently, Korras had a recent companion. What if he had more? Obi Wan could have walked into a fire fight he was poorly suited to defend against. Korras Blake would have escaped and gone too far into hiding to be found at all.

Ultimately that's what it comes down to. To quote Obi Wan himself, "from a certain point of view" it does look like Obi Wan did what had to be done. But examining the situation itself, Obi Wan acted with reckless abandon and nearly doomed everyone in Vaskoth because he thought he was taking the easiest and safest route. That's not IC.

Let me finish this by stating I don't mind how this turned out. I honestly find the result very interesting, because it will mean interesting dynamics later on between Luceti and the other enclosures. So personally, I'm satisfied with how the thread ended. So the only reason I'm saying this is because as much as you are defending Obi Wan's motivations here, his logic and rationality don't add up.

[averybadfeeling]

In genuine honesty?

I actually didn't expect the attack to hit. Obi-Wan tried because he saw it as the best solution- Even had he missed, he still would have been the one who made the call while Blake was off-balance, making it easier to at least close the distance. But had Korras dodged- or not been alone- that would have struck me as completely valid.

However, it is true that there was a lot of recklessness and several unforeseen consequences that could have, and indeed still will, arise from the decision. I, personally, would have loved to work with that, and still look forward to it. Obi-Wan, essentially, was forced with a hard decision, and to a certain degree, disarmed and off-balance as he was, he effectively panicked. He didn't consider all of the variables.

[dammitmasa]

I do wish we had talked about it as the thread was going on, given it's importance. I put that on me, since we could have had a private plurk for it as it was happening. Something for me to remember in the future for anything similar in the future.

In any case, if you're acknowledging that, then that I think is enough. If a character makes a mistake, it's important that it's treated that way.

[blessingone]

Hey. So I kept meaning to come back to this later when I had time to properly form a response, but I figure I should say something before I post to the current HMD (I was sure I had tomorrow to do this in, but such is how it goes).

I've been wanting to express my sincere gratitude that you took the time to tell me this, because it meant more to me than I suspect you would expect. I had hit a rough patch when it came to the game around the HMD time. My activity has been awful lately and, at the time, I was doing particularly poorly. While I had no desire to leave the game, I was idly wondering if I should still be in here since my activity was in the pits and I wasn't feeling particularly secure about my characterization, either.

Then this comment plopped its way into my notifs folder and it made me feel a lot better. It helped me to understand that, even if my activity has been pretty terrible and my characterization of Fenimore was a bit shakey at the time, I didn't want to just leave it as it is. I wanted to put in the work to fix it. While work has dropped me once again into the hole of "not really tagging," your comment there has helped bring back that will to make things better once I get this stuff done.

So thank you. You really helped me out. Have a heart back! ♥

...And hopefull this isn't an embarrassing amount of outpouring of gratitude, but, hey, if it is, we're the only two who will see it.

[touchofrogue]

It isn't embarrassing at all! Perhaps in part for the fact that no one will ever see. ;) But I've been going through a down stretch myself, so it's very nice to hear that I was able to help you through one, even with something like this. Thank you, Yosie.

[blessingone]

Well, it's good that there was a side-benefit for you for being able to help me out there, then!