Regarding the Recent LJ Issues

[lucetimods]

Hey there, everyone. I'm sure we're all just tickled to be here right now, but this has gotta be done, so.


PLEASE READ THIS WHOLE THING, SERIOUSLY GUYS


Livejournal RP Has Exploded

Between the new comment system, the numerous DDoS attacks this past year, and Livejournal's collective failure to provide adequate (or even mediocre at this rate) customer service, some games are packing up and running for the hills. We've sat on the sidelines and twiddled our thumbs waiting for things to change, but the reasons have stacked up against LJ and it's time to speak up.


Lots of Issues to be Had

The comment system aside, PLEASE CHECK YOUR ACCOUNT STATUS FOR AUTOMATIC PAYMENTS. There have been reports of LJ turning on automatic payments for any account that has a credit card attached to it. I personally have had this happen to one of my accounts already, and have seen reports of it happening to many others. You can check your account status here. If your journals have been set to automatic against your will, turn that off. And check your accounts regularly just in case the problem persists.

Customized comments are apparently being randomly turned back to the default new comment settings. Dunno if it's a glitch or intentional, but it's less annoying than the payment issue, so there's that.


The Meat and Potatoes: Are We Moving?

Well, that's a good question, and at the moment it's really up to you guys. Below you will find a delightful little poll where you can tell us exactly how you feel and what you'd like to do.

I will make this clear right from the get-go: if we do move, it will be to Dreamwidth. I have seen numerous complaints in regards to InsaneJournal, both aesthetically and more importantly because of the potentially triggering nature of the site. That's not the sort of environment we'd want to offer our userbase. Dreamwidth is thus far the community most similar to Livejournal, and the one with the most helpful customer service. Overall Dreamwidth has plenty of pros and cons when compared to Livejournal; a comprehensive list can be found here, as far as functionality goes. Additionally, there is a guide here to help Livejournal users adapt to the move.

Alternatively, read through the full FAQ. I would suggest doing at least some basic research before voting, unless you think LJ has irreparably screwed us over.


If We Do End Up Moving...

• It won't all happen right away. This sort of thing takes time.
  
• It will probably disrupt Luceti for a few days. However, if we all vote on this happening and we want it done soon, I will make it my top priority to have everything set up during the holiday season, so we can start things off fresh in the new year. This is probably an unrealistic goal, but we'll have a go at it, eh?
  
• Journals can be imported; we've been testing it out, and it seems to be doing fine regardless of whether you post to it first, have entries out of order, etc. If anyone with more experience with Dreamwidth has bugs or complaints to offer up, we're game to listen. Apparently communities are also going to be importable as well some time in the future, so we have that to look forward to.
  
• I realize that some people might be reluctant to move due to paid account status; a wasted paid account would suck. I was hoping OpenID would help with this, but sadly we're kind of screwed on that one.
  
• Due to Dreamwidth's Invite-Only nature, considerations are being made on how to handle new applicants in the new year if we end up moving. It might make things more complicated, but I'm sure a workable system can be made. We're a creative bunch. There's also a mass community invite option.
  
• Feel free to continue RPing as normal until we announce whether this is happening or not.
  
• Whatever happens, barring some disaster, APPLICATIONS WILL OPEN ON TIME.

And Now, A Poll

For the love of god, please vote only once, with one journal. I'm not leaving the votes private so if for whatever reason you don't want other players to know your vote, please send a Private Message to the mod inbox.

A thread will be provided at the start of the entry to take comments, complaints, concerns, etc. We will do our best to answer them all. The poll will remain open until we announce the results around the 29th of December. If you want to give LJ some time to fix it, I'd recommend just waiting to vote until the last few days of the poll before voting.

If you vote "Other", please clearly say so in the subject li orz comment to the mod thread at the top of the comments.

[Poll #1805223]

Regardless of how this turns out, I would honestly recommend going over to Dreamwidth and creating accounts for your RP journals while it is easily accessible and free to do so up until the new year.

Thanks for your patience with this, guys. We can truck through it, we definitely can, one way or another!

Comments

[lucetimods]

If you voted "Other" or have important questions/concerns for us mods, please reply to this comment.

[stilldontgotit.livejournal.com]

I voted no, but that's mainly because, right now, I don't think it's a good idea. Luceti is a large game, and while LJ is proving itself to have a number of issues, I feel like a move would risk splitting the playerbase. Not to mention it takes a lot to move a journal-based game.

I'd personally like to stick it out and see what changes are made over the next few weeks. If it continues to get worse, I wouldn't object to a move. It's just not a first priority at the moment.

[derek-bliss.livejournal.com]

Thank you for bringing this to the table. I'm one of the people that had three of my paid accounts switched to autopay, one of which hadn't even been used in several months. Please, guys, check out your accounts, even if you have a ton of them. Better safe than sorry, and it seems as random as the customized comments switch. (As in, some may, some may not, or it could be all or nothing).

Edit: I'll also say that there's a good chance if LJ doesn't fix and address a lot of these problems and changes, and Luceti stays here, I may not stick around...or at least I won't with Foot and Ari (Since those are tow of the accounts that got switched and I really don't want to have to babysit their status all the time).

But I'm still on the fence on that one. If I do stay though, it will solely to play here. Everything else will head on over to DW (actually already has)

[ignitethesky]

Seconding the checking of journals due to autopay. One of mine was, and I've never used automatic payments for anything.

[kineticcajun]

I'm gonna give this a couple more days before I vote for certain, because I'm still going to give them a little more time to either roll stuff back or at least stop making things worse. But right now, even though my accounts haven't (yet) been hit by any of the effects, I'm leaning towards yes because of what's been happening to so many others.

In the end, though, I'll go wherever Luceti goes. ♥ I love this game, and I love everyone in it. DON'T GO WHERE I CAN'T FOLLOW.

[crisisrain]

I clicked the wrong one apparently.

Either way I don't particularly care if the game moves or not. At the moment I can't continue to RP, so my paid is going to waste anyway. I mean, I've moved my personal thanks to LJ's asshattery with leaking friend locked entries, among other bad staff behaviour making me uncomfortable. I'll just follow the herd as a sheep myself. Personally, I'd like LJ to get it's fucking act together, I feel like I have more chance of winning the lottery. At the moment, this is the tip of an iceberg, LJ has a lot more shit planned over the next few weeks.

[tailasoldastime]

Since I don't own a paid account, I feel I don't have as much privilege here to state exactly how awful these LJ changes are, but considering how painful it all is just from my position, I have huge sympathy to anyone who has to deal with this Autopay bullcrap.

I'm REALLY hoping that LJ will revert most of these changes - if they're smart they would, because nobody likes a site that doesn't respect its customers. The negative response does appear overwhelming large, and while that hasn't made much of a difference when it comes to Windows Live or Facebook, I do recall at least once YouTube reverting a change they made because of the massive complaints. Hopefully LJ will do the same... because I also use my Mun account for occasional journal entries, which are rarely posted now but never will be if I have to endure this for the rest of my LJ days.

TL;DR, I would much rather we stay on LJ... but if this doesn't get fixed? I say we move. I would miss many of the options old/current LJ provides, but if it's true that DW considers their users, they're sure to improve if they get more customers. So for now, I'm just waiting to see what happens.

[falenandawn]

I'll be blunt: LiveJournal's disregard for it's users has made me incredibly uncomfortable. I do not mind the thought of a move, and ultimately, I will stay with the community in whatever choice the players make.

I don't really have an attachment to LiveJournal beyond the fact that Luceti is here, and even if my other games do not move they will still get a small amount of my attention even if it is split between sites.

I do suggest waiting, at least a month's time. Tempers need to cool, LJ needs more of a chance to actually do something (hopefully), people will be hiatusing for the holidays and then there's prep for back to school to consider for some people.

[falenandawn]

Ah.... as an aside, I live in an area close to the LiveJournal offices - (About two hours from it) and am considering sending a letter of concern about their conduct. Perhaps if I end up going to San Fran anytime soon (I go every month or so nowadays), hand delivering it. It's right near china town, afterall.

[pineapplesalmon]

I'm a former player that is posting on a completely unrelated journal. I just happened to still have mod posts tracked.

Regarding moving communities to DreamWidth: you can get community codes that work for multiple users (50, 100, some arbitrary amount) if you decide to move luceti. I can't remember the specifics off the top of my head, but invite codes will not be an issue even if luceti moves after the 1st.

Hope this helps!

EDIT: ORZ I READ TOO FAST and realized you already knew. Anyways, good luck luceti!

[eyesofstrength]

I voted, yes, I want to move, more because that is my preference. At the rate we are going even if LJ somehow manages to get their act together and meet with our demands (or a reasonable compromise, which isn't looking to be happening either), we know they are just going to fuck up again with the next release.

The last release already made me absolutely unwilling to pay for any accounts besides this one. That was actually a part of the reason why I dropped down to just one character, because honestly, I don't like playing in non-paid journals. That one bit of stubbornness is the only reason why I'm still paying for this one.

I'm not going to leave if the playerbase does decide to stay. But I most definitely have already created journals on Dreamwidth for any characters I may consider having still. But I do think the pros of moving outweigh the cons massively.

And Akai, feel free to use the spreadsheet for a player count and to help check for duplicate votes. It's up to date with all the most recent drops unless I missed any. Right now we stand at 196 players.

[dissonates]

Thanks, I was planning to rely on that \o can you link it here for easy reference, if you don't mind?

[dissonates]

For the record, I voted "I don't care" but I am heavily leaning towards "Yes". The only thing keeping me here is I go where Luceti goes.

[magiconcehad.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm leaning heavily in the "yes" direction, but am waiting and seeing myself. I'm seeing no signs that LJ is planning to rollback the changes, but frankly, there's a much different problem that's going on here.

Because do I think the new commenting system is a big step backwards? Yes. Would I have been willing to deal with it and adapt? Yes.

UNTIL I saw the comments that we'll just "get used to it" and that Igrick (Head of Livejournal Russia and one of the biggest supporters of the current changes, for those of you who are unaware) believes the complaints in his inbox were nothing more than "a great way to learn American swearwords". UNTIL I saw complaints and concerns being called "spam" and heard about some of those reporting bugs being called "liars." That's frankly why I want to leave, and if it weren't for the logistics and the potential of splitting the userbase, I would be wholeheartedly voting yes. Because in my opinion, staying in a situation where the staff treats players like shit is implying that you are okay with being treated that way. The damage to my trust has been done. Getting the old commenting style back isn't going to fix the real root of the problem here.

I'll follow Luceti. I feel like I'm starting to make some progress with CR and getting into the game. But if I had my preference, I'd rather be on a platform where the staff actually treats their users with respect. Maybe that's not a big deal to some people, but it is to me.

[fruitblocked.livejournal.com]

I'm leaning heavily toward a move because of the above reasons, too. I don't want to stay here.

[mykimlasca.livejournal.com]

I haven't been here that long but I'm voting other. I'd like to see changes, but if not, I'll probably go with you all. It'll be a pain wasting the icons but that's okay. I came for threads and my cast.

[daisy023]

For the moment, I will refrain from voting until a few days have passed, and both current feelings go away, to see if LJ actually changes its' mind, and to hope that igrick falls down some stairs by karmic intervention.

Anyway, for the moment, my opinion lies towards a move. With the continous problems LJ has been having and the current direction is it heading towards that has been angering both english and russian users alike, I feel staying in here could end up harming the game - perhaps a little moreso with its' journal-based nature. If more options continue to be changed or removed, we're going to have to deal with a lot of stuff in the future.

That being said, whenever if the move is decided or not, I will gladly comply to it. All of my important accounts have been imported, and I love Luceti too much to drop for the moment. My LJ paid account for this girl expires in August, so if we make the move, it's possible that by that time it'll be over - And if the mods decide to make it sooner than that, I won't have a problem, either.

Another point noted with concern before is what would happen to Luceti after the move. Some people would be taken by surprise by it, or wouldn't be happy to get another paid, so needless to say... I think we'd better wait for the moment, and do it slowly. We'd also have to register which accounts had their names changed (to put an example, Daisy's account over at Dreamwidth is now Daisy023, and my personal account is d21jaydee), and to see if we'd remain journal-based or change into comm-based with the shift (dohohohohoho).

EDIT: A good point Triad put forward is the possibility of new blood having a harder time coming in to dreamwidth, concerning the need for invitation codes. It can be argued that those are easy to obtain, but I admit, I didn't even consider to move to dreamwidth until this entire ordeal happened and DW started granting free access without the need of an invite.

I just hope they do grant accounts for free in a future...

EDIT 2: Finally decided, placed my vote on "yes".

[wildkotetsu]

I put down 'don't care', leaning toward a move. Honestly, if the game moves, I'm eager to switch over and work it out. And if we don't move, I'll manage it somehow... (EDIT: though I'd like to wait and see if LJ makes DRAMATIC CHANGE!11, as small of hope I have for it...)

The only thing that sucks is that I have 5 journals paid two months in advance; do you think I can get my money back, since I'm not getting what was initially paid for?

Not to mention. 2700 LJ Tokens. :^|

[hickumu.livejournal.com]

A method has come up to give back the paid time that's been gifted to users since the last DDoS attacks - literally, reply to the announcement with "I do not want this paid time." Beyond that, though, actual refunds would require more hoops than I've been willing to attempt just yet.

[ombra_lira]

I voted yes. As of right now, I will not be staying on LJ for any reason, even if they do roll this back. The metaphorical straw that broke the camel's back and all. And with the rumors or news that there's going to be more of this is not something I care to stick around for. I will, however, at least wait to see what the decision is for Luceti. I don't want to leave if I don't have to.

For imports, I've noticed no problems, and even importing content from two or more different accounts to a single account on DW isn't an issue - entries just get slotted in by date, and the date out of order entries haven't caused me any problems. It's running a little slow at the moment due to the number of people importing their journals from LJ, but even then, it seems to be doing okay. They mentioned some kind of error in their news post but I haven't encountered it.

And for those that don't like the look of DW, there's this to make it look more like LJ used to before this clusterfuck went down.

[dissonates]

Thank you for that layout, it looks very promising!

[mikangirl.livejournal.com]

/looks at current results and whistles

Such mixed feelings ;;

I said it on Plurk, but for the record my own personal thoughts are: give LJ a timeframe of two weeks to see if they roll back/make fixes to these "improvements", and then I'll be jumping my personal LJ over to Dreamwidth at any rate. Where Luceti is concerned... I'll stick with the game wherever it ends up.

/clings to the game like a clingy thing 8|

(frozen comment)

[aphephobic.livejournal.com]

I voted "no," because, quite frankly, all this hysteria is a little too hysterical for my tastes. LJ has always been good about extending paid time to users affected by server outages. What's sparked all this ~outrage~ is the new rollout. It's new tech, and it's buggy tech, and it's barely been out for two days. There's no way LJ *intentionally* messed with the status of onetime/auto-renew payments -- maybe there's an intern who pushed a wrong button and already lost her job for it. It makes about as much sense as some of the giant conspiracy theories I've seen.

I feel like what's got people's underpants all bunched up is the PR side of it. The LJ team, from the volunteers all the way to the guys at the top, have never been very good at handling the case where thousands of furious users start shouting death threats all at once. People want answers and solutions NOW, the people involved with handling matters don't always HAVE answers, and the LJ machine almost always breaks apart where the customer can see it. For me, PR failure isn't a dealbreaker.

I'd consider a move if this kind of thing went on for a week or longer, particularly if the lo-fi version of LJ continued to not be lo-fi at all anymore. But it's been two days, and even then it's only been two days in the approximate sense. There haven't yet been 48 hours since the changeover.

And also, on a super-selfish note -- I've tried to use DW for roleplay and gave up after maybe four comments into a thread. The coding is JUST different enough to be much more confusing than the usual LJ kernel-clone sites like GJ was and IJ continues to be. But that's just me being a hypocrite complaining about not wanting to change right after complaining about OTHER people complaining how they don't want to change something else.

(frozen comment)

[(Anonymous)]

I don't know if it's intentional but this entire comment is incredibly condescending towards the users who are upset, and have every reason to be. Just because YOU aren't doesn't make everyone who is a bunch of hysterical kids with their underpants bunched up.

[emp3thy]

My major concern with a move is with the amount of money the playerbase would end up spending. I know I recently renewed my accounts on LJ, before this issue became obvious, and I'd rather not have to pay for them all again even though it would be going to support a much better site. While of course paid features are optional, they're something that many people enjoy, and not everyone could afford to pay twice over if they already have this year.

However, the attitude of the site administrators and especially this thought that they are somehow turning on automatic payments on their own is really unnerving me. Is there a link with more information on this somewhere? I have many accounts that I have paid at 'some' time in the past, I don't want to have to be constantly checking them all to see if my money is going to be stolen.

Basically, I'm going to reserve my vote for a while. If the game ends up moving, I'll move; if not, I'll stay. However I'm leaning towards this maybe being the best time to cut our losses and go, even with the drawbacks. It will be less painful to do it now than when we have literally no other choice.

[falenandawn]

Currently, a good amount of people and Luceti players alike have reported problems over plurk and the news post - the Livejournal staff, however, have dismissed it so far with 'you probably didn't realize you had it on.'

[aintnoconvict]

My "I don't care" vote isn't strictly apathy, it's more that I'm willing to go with whatever's decided. I've got a new journal set and imported on DW, it's all good.

I do want offer a hat's off to the mods for even considering a move. I know I'm going to be making a similar post for my own game in the near future - involving a fraction of a fraction of the amount of people and data you guys would be shuffling - and I'm daunted. Hopefully it won't come to that but still, mad props for being willing to take it on ♥

[yourhatred.livejournal.com]

I will always support a move off LJ. I've been wanting the majority of RP games to get off this site for years.

The layouts on DW can be customized to look better, and more customization options will be made by users once there's more users there. And they support roleplaying communities. I see so many more pros on my end.

[tsuntrader]

I've said a lot of this on plurk but I'd like to bring it up in this entry anyway:

In the past six(?) months, livejournal has:

-had multiple DDoS attacks resulting in a lot of downtime
-has had near constant slow loading time, delayed notifications, or general downtime outside of the DDoS attacks
-enabled a feature that gave away everyone's blatant location without any sense of regard for their userbase's privacy
-had a bug where individuals have had access to other peoples' journals which is a huge invasion of privacy and leaves me feeling insecure about the trustworthiness of the site
-made big changes without taking the effect it would have on their users into consideration
-ignored commentary from their beta testers
-only initiated change after hundreds of comments on a release entry saying no
-ignored or outright dismissed complaints from their users
-released new features that have been heavily bugged
-triggered panic attacks and migraines due to new features
-left thousands of complaints with nothing but a "we're working on it" after 48 hours
-referred to its userbase as "spam"
-had one of the head staff ignore legitimate complaints or respond with "they'll get used to it"
-reenabled a feature that people have been working around
-enabled payment options that could have very well taken money from users if the LJ community didn't catch on so quickly

So needless to say, I'll be happy to move from livejournal in favor of something more reliable.

[cutefiancee.livejournal.com]

These are things that I've been saying on Plurk myself. I actually don't give a rip one way or another about the aestheticism (or lack thereof) of the changes. I actually don't care about a subject line or not. What I am fed up with is that this sort of situation is becoming a regular pattern with LJ as a whole. Every few months, they are rolling out something "new and improved" with little to no consideration to the consequences or their users. The privacy issue being one of the most glaring examples. After that time, I moved my personal journal to Dreamwidth.

I am uncomfortable with the site and have been with months and only stayed for RP purposes. Which is sad. I've been here since you had to have invite codes to create a LJ. I am just that old of and oldbie. And the fact that I want nothing more to do with this site I think is telling.

I've been here in Luceti for two and a half years. I was so very looking forward to this app cycle because I was finally going to try a character I've wanted to over a year. I don't want to just throw all this away, but I cannot in any sort of good conscience continue with the site itself. I'm voting for a move. I have some invite codes if anyone needs them.

P.S. I would +1 your comment, but lol we don't need subject lines. :|

P.P.S. Adding another plea to double and triple check your accounts for activated auto-payments, even old journals you don't use anymore. Between mine and my husband's RP journals, I found EIGHT of them had been activated and I know for a fact they shouldn't have been.

[dragoon-pride.livejournal.com]

I voted yes, but I'll stay with the game either way the majority votes. I'm more attached to my games and the people in them than the journal site itself. Admittedly my hesitation in the past over moving was also because I wanted to cling to old journals I get so strongly attached to things ok! :( But after using the import feature a few times, I see that it works great, which has alleviated my concerns on that end.

What it comes to is that the reasons for leaving are starting to outweigh those for staying. I'd definitely say to take some time planning this and not rush into it without giving it a little time... but it really can't hurt to be prepared for the possibility.

[knightofratatosk]

I absolutely want to move if possible. I have no respect for a site that has said "tough shit" to the fact that their new comment pages quite literally trigger my migraines.

[captainhornblower]

Another "yes" vote with the caveat of "I will gladly stay on LJ if Luceti stays on LJ."

You guys aren't getting rid of me, but I'm definitely in favour of moving to DW.

[hisdarkmark]

Okay to start with, I voted that I haven't decided yet. I want to see if somehow by the sheer magic of Christmas LJ gets its act together. I really don't want to move. I'm sure as time goes on either LJ will provide a fix, or LJ users will find a way around to make things workable again.

However, if it doesn't then yes, I would be cool with moving only for the fact that there are some of our players who can't even access LJ. Whether it be due to browsers not working and crashing browsers/forcing people to force-restart or whether its due to triggering headaches, it's not a healthy environment and it sucks a lot of the fun out of a game.

I really don't have much to say other than I'm waiting it out. Ultimately, of course, I'll be going wherever the game ends up but I'm hopeful.